Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

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Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 8:53 am

It looks like Harrison county in Indiana will be footing part of a bill to blast open a new cave entrance. I am not an expert on Binkley cave but I can't help but wonder if they want to blast a new entrance to make opening the Binkley-Blowing Hole connection easier. If that is the case this really a major misuse of power by those involved. I am not accusing anyone, I am just thinking out loud. Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the cave could let us know why this would be a good idea.

The Harrison County Board of Commissioners Monday night received a request from Gary Roberson to allow the widening of Green Acres Drive off Shiloh Road so Roberson and his cave enthusiast group can create a public entrance site to Binkley Cave, specifically a new, large room with many caves features including a 50-foot waterfall.


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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby cavercrane97 » Apr 19, 2012 9:25 am

Public entrance, large room with many features. Maybe not a good idea. Just thinking though. :shrug:
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby batrotter » Apr 19, 2012 10:56 am

We already have 4 commercial caves in the state of Indiana. I'm not convinced another will draw any more visitors, but... no one asked me.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 11:21 am

Those are all valid points, that is what made me think maybe they were using the county and their political position to fund their personal project. Like I said I do not want to accuse anyone but it seems suspicious to me.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby shibumi » Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm

One could try asking the principles, many of whom are in the Member's Manual.

I don't know enough about the project to comment on it specifically, but if it's a project that will bring more tourism to the county then I don't see it being any different than taxpayer money funding a new stadium for a sports team and outrage over potential misuse of public funds is really the business of the residents of that county.

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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby boogercaver71 » Apr 19, 2012 12:15 pm

After reading the entire article, it looks like all Gary is asking for is to have the County to split the cost of widening the entrance road 50/50 with his group of investors. The article did not mention having the county bare anymore of the cost of developing the Binkleys If anyone knows how to commercially develop a cave it is Gary.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 12:33 pm

It also does not specifically mention opening it as a commercial cave past the extent of saying boat tours may be in the future. I do not want to judge anyone since I do not know and I am probably wrong in my suspicions. I agree if it is an attempt to drive tourism then using taxpayer money is appropriate. I have doubts about a caver voluntarily opening public access and telling everyone about it. If the goal is to make access easier for hauling equipment to enlarge the blowing hole connection then any tax payer money used for any reason is wrong.

Even if the money is used to only widen the road it will not add any value to the county. If you are familiar with Harrison county you know there are lots of roads that need to be widened but to put a priority on this road to further a caving project is not a very ethical choice. The article was very vague on the plans for the cave. Since the new entrance is on public land will it be closed due to WNS? There are lots of variables that only the people involved can answer.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby T-Bone » Apr 19, 2012 1:54 pm

David Grimes,
Do you often go on and on about subjects which you know absolutely nothing about? Just curious.

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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby NZcaver » Apr 19, 2012 3:45 pm

T-Bone wrote:David Grimes,
Do you often go on and on about subjects which you know absolutely nothing about? Just curious.

Tim McLain

Welcome to the forum, where everybody goes on and on about subjects whether we know anything about them or not.

But seriously - if you're implying you know more about this Binkley thing, why don't you enlighten the rest of us? If not - did you really just make your first post a one-liner insulting our forum administrator? I mean, really? :shrug:
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 4:06 pm

Tim, as I pointed out earlier I do not know any of the details about the project and never claimed that I did. I merely mentioned that to me it seemed odd that a group of cavers who have spent so much time on a project would suddenly want to open it to the public. There are a lot of details that are unknown to people outside of the ISS. It almost seems like my suspicions may have been correct seeing how the first ISS member to chime immediately starts attacking me personally after I express my opinion. If my suspicions are not correct and you have more details please enlighten us all. I have admitted I would like to know more and that my suspicions were probably wrong so I do not see why you are so upset. If my suspicions are correct then you can bet myself and everyone I know will fight this project all the way.

EDIT: I am also curious whats in it for the ISS? Will the ISS be managing the entrance and who can visit the cave through the new entrance? I just wonder why they are willing to pay out so much of their money to widen the road, there must be some payback for them.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby shibumi » Apr 19, 2012 4:33 pm

NZcaver wrote:
T-Bone wrote:David Grimes,
Do you often go on and on about subjects which you know absolutely nothing about? Just curious.

Tim McLain

Welcome to the forum, where everybody goes on and on about subjects whether we know anything about them or not.

But seriously - if you're implying you know more about this Binkley thing, why don't you enlighten the rest of us? If not - did you really just make your first post a one-liner insulting our forum administrator? I mean, really? :shrug:


Does being a forum administrator excuse one from behaving poorly? David is making insinuations with admittedly very little information instead of first finding out more about it, including asking if anyone knows more BEFORE making thinly veiled insinuations.

I have no dog in this fight but I was more than a little put off when I read the OP. I know David qualified his initial statement, but misuse of public funds is a pretty serious accusation to be throwing around lightly.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 4:40 pm

I am sorry if you feel I was behaving poorly but simply expressing my opinion and specifically pointing out that I do not know any details about the project past what the article says does not seem wrong to me.

As for Tim, I am not personally insulted, it takes a lot more than that to get me upset. My goal is to spread the news of this project, express my concerns (I am a Harrison county resident), and request someone with more information to address questions.

I am free to express my opinions here just like everyone else on this forum and I did so without attacking anyone. I am even willing to give them the benefit of doubt and assume I am wrong.

I have no dog in this fight but I was more than a little put off when I read the OP. I know David qualified his initial statement, but misuse of public funds is a pretty serious accusation to be throwing around lightly.


Sorry I read this line after I had already posted. I completely agree it is a very serious accusation but it is a legitimate concern. People who are not aware of the caving world would not think to even consider this as a possibility. I do not want to try and smear anyone or accuse anyone, I sincerely hope I am wrong and I just seriously misread the article. I do however need to be concerned about this because I am a Harrison county tax payer so this does affect me personally. If someone is using tax payer money for personal business or to further a personal hobby they need to be removed from their post and possibly be arrested. Please do not take this as an accusation it is merely a serious concern.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby shibumi » Apr 19, 2012 4:47 pm

Yep, you are just as free to express your opinion like anyone else. If I, someone who doesn't really have a position on the issue, read it that way then you might want to examine how you came across if it was not your intention to be offensive. As for the other point: I was addressing Jansen's implication that somehow moderators are above reproach. I'm a member of another hobbyist website that has a distinct moderator "elite" and it's pretty obnoxious there, I'm glad that that sort of attitude doesn't apply here.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby David Grimes » Apr 19, 2012 4:55 pm

Sorry I just missed your reply when I edited mine above yours. For anyone who thought I was accusing someone of any wrong doing I apologize that was not my goal. There is no evidence that anyone has done or attempted to do anything wrong, I am just expressing my concerns.

Shibumi, I can promise you that on this forum no one will ever be warned, banned, or anything else for expressing their opinion unless they directly violate the TOS. I am an adult and I can take criticism and all the Cavechat mods are the same. We have specific rules that regulate such things just for that purpose.
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Re: Blasting a New Entrance to Binkley Cave

Postby shibumi » Apr 19, 2012 4:57 pm

David Grimes wrote:Shibumi, I can promise you that on this forum no one will ever be warned, banned, or anything else for expressing their opinion unless they directly violate the TOS. I am an adult and I can take criticism and all the Cavechat mods are the same. We have specific rules that regulate such things just for that purpose.


:grin: I know, and that's why I like the place (and I'm a mini-mod here too, shhhhh). It needed to be said out loud in case anyone took away the wrong impression from Jansen's statement.
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