Laos and Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

[DirtDoc]

11- Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

Saturday Dec 3

Back in Phong Nha Park, this time with a guide, driver, and a Jeep, who also provided the necessary permits.

The guard house we drove by yesterday was well staffed, and the gate closed. We were fortunate to have had yesterday and had succeeded in getting a better idea of this rather wonderful World Heritage site and protected area than we otherwise could have, even with the guide. We managed to get to places that are rarely (or not at all) visited by tourists.

We confirmed that in the dryer season (April) they offer three day treks to Son Doong (the big one). It's about 15 km trek through the jungle to another big cave (Hang En), where you sleep . Next day hike over to the entrance of Son Doong and look in, but that requires pretty good rope work to enter (a 100 meter rappel) and is not yet permitted. Apparently an outfitter has offered a 5-day trip into the cave, but the authorities had not yet permitted that. Then another night in the Hang En cave entrance (it's a big through cave with a river, and you can go all the way if you want to -I suggest you have decent lights). The next day hike out.

ADDED NOTE ON THE CAVE ENTRANCE. I was not able to talk with anyone who had actually been to the entrance of Son Doong when we were there. The comment about a 100 meter rappel was taken from the video. Yes, you CAN enter the cave that way. However, a careful reading of Howard Limbert's description of their taking the National Geographic crew into the cave reveals that they were able to rig the entrance as a 60 meter down-climb without actually using SRT.

The behind the scenes discussion of caving and making the National Geographic video and article of Son Doong from a caver's perspective has recently been posted: http://www.vietnamcaves.com/report-2010

National Geographic images of Hang Son Doong (Mountain River Cave) - and also Hang En and Hang Loong Con - can be viewed at
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/ ... hotography
The videos of the exploration, survey, and science, originally shown on the National Geographic TV channel, are also posted on U-Tube in three 15-minute segments:
Segment 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUXw40R- ... re=related
Segment 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi-6MflQ ... re=related
Segment 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkmeHBqG ... re=related

There is a U-Tube video on the rain-forest hike to Hang En Cave. This is the same stream that runs through Son Doong Cave - see the National Geographic images referenced above. There is now a fairly good trail because this is the trade route for access to Son Doong used by the explorers and the National Geographic TV crews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNDGlcdN ... re=related

The highlight of our day was a visit to Dong Thien Duong (Paradise Cave). A must see. Just opened - a world class cave with world class development. You see 1.5 km of the 31.4 mapped, Huge passage 30-150 m wide, 40-100 m high, straight sections 300-400 m at a shot. Extremely well decorated, a wet Carlsbad and then some. Not as big as the big room, but it goes, and goes, and goes. Excellent elevated walkway with good railings to contain the visitors and well lit with state of the art LEDs. This was found in 2009 and developed before destruction by casual visitors.

We are going to be travelling the next several days - night train to Hanoi and then Ha Long Bay (Cat Ba Island).

ADDED REFERENCE:

Howard Limbert has an excellent web site http://www.vietnamcaves.com documenting his 20 years of leading caving expeditions to Vietnam.

Dirt Doc

Preliminary images. Posting in progress.
The in-cave images were taken at high ISO using the electric lights in the cave. These lights were LEDs with various light characteristics. I have not yet tried to correct the white balance of these images and make a preliminary posting here to give you a feel for this rather wonderful cave.












Map of Thien Duong (Paradise Cave). Tour covers 1.5 km of 31.4 km mapped passage. Passage along the tour route is 30-50 m wide and 40-100 m high.

[DirtDoc]

12- Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

3-4 December, Travel days.

After an afternoon on a beautiful section of beach on the Vietnam coast on the Gulf of Tonkin, took the night train to Hanoi.

Now learning how to cross the streets here in Hanoi without being run over by the scooters and motor bikes. Walk slowly and steadily across the street and they will miss you. DON'T suddenly speed up or stop, or you are sure to screw up the traffic flow and very likely get hit yourself.

DirtDoc

[DirtDoc]

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[DirtDoc]

13- Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

6/12/2011 Tuesday

Fog in Hanoi this morning, progressing to light drizle by the time we got to the coast. Boat to Cat Ba Island and a connecting bus to the town. Couple of guys picked us and our luggge up on two motor bikes in the drizzle and we headed off to a boat, and then out into Lan Ha bay.

Lan Ha bay is the SW extension of Ha Long Bay and the tourist crowd of boats is still quite small. (Today, the weather probably also had something to do with it!)

Really spectacular even with the weather. We could easily see the drowned karst towers rising from the sea through the mist.

Quite mysterious and sureal!

Very similar to the karst around Guilin and Yangshuo in China except the karst hills and towers rise from the ocean. After the cone and tower karst landscape formed, their bases were drowned by the sea level rise that accompanied the last de-glaciation. The bay is shallow and now a 3.5 meter tide results in a water-cut notch at the base of the towers. Drowned foot caves occur. "FOOT CAVE" is a Chinese tower karst term for caves at the foot of the towers that have a reversing seasonal flow through them, in and then out, between the wet and dry seasons. During the wet season, foot caves recharge the shallow aquifer. During the dry season, groundwater flows out from the aquifer onto the surface.

Now that the ocean has invaded the caves, some of them pass the ocean through the base of the cone karst hills into interior dolines creating tidal salt-water lakes inside them (interior tidal lakes). The only connection between the interior salt water lakes and the sea is through caves, some at sea level but most probably below sea level and never with an air filled void at the top.

Kayaked into a cave at sea level that goes through into one of the drowned dolines. Unfortuately our timing with the tide was poor and it became too shallow to get all the way through (half tide, which was also going out). Not only was it getting too shallow, if we had gotten through we would likely have been stuck inside the doline until the tide rose again. It required lights to see to be able to pass through the twisting center of the connecting cave.

Back to shore at Cat Ba Island at dark-thirty. Just now finished dinner. Hope the weather is a little better tomorrow. Actually, other than not great for landscape photos, it was quite adequate for viewing and sensing the karst. Another spectacular day!

DirtDoc

[DirtDoc]

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[Phil Winkler]

I highly recommend using Google Earth to view this area: search on: Cat Ba Island, Vietnam, then look just east of this. There are dozens of pictures of the pinnacle karst and even the tour boats.

[DirtDoc]

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[DirtDoc]

14- Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

December 7 and 8, 2011

Lan Ha Bay is the southwestern extension of Ha Long Bay, just east of Cat Ba Island, Vietnam. A major karst reference work is the report by Tony Waltham, 2005:
http://www.speleogenesis.info/directory ... df9536.pdf

Still drizzly, overcast, and cool but with good visibility across the drowned karst.

We chartered (rather by accident) a wooden sailing Junk built over 30 years ago as a working fishing vessel, that was refitted as a tourist boat about 4 years ago. The fish hold has morphed into a rather nice cabin, and it is still capable of quietly going about its business under sail. The big diesel is there for calm days or forcing your way against unfavourable winds. I have been told that it is the only real sailing tourist boat at Cat Ba Island, and that seems correct. All the other tourist boats have fake masts. Clearly they would capsize should they ever actually try to set the sails that none of them carry.

Additionally, this is clearly a unique vessel on the waters of Lan Ha Bay as every tourist boat we pass is suddenly lined with tourists taking pictures of us. The captain is a grizzled Vietnam fisherman of uncertain age who certainly knows well the many least-travelled parts of the bay.

Ha Long Bay is definitely over touristed - this part around Cat Ba is much less so, especially if you glide into waters not routinely visited by the tourist boats from the north of Ha Long Bay. We towed two two-person kayaks behind us.

We explored a number of sea-level caves that connect to interior lagoons - drowned dolines. Some you can see through but other connecting caves bend and twist and require good headlights to safely traverse.

It requires good knowledge of the caves and tides, as very strong, rapidly-changing currents occur as the tide pushes water into, or sucks it out of, the interior lagoons. The tidal zone is heavily populated with clams which the local fisherman hammer open to collect the meat inside. The broken shells are razor sharp - like a mini-security wall heavily topped with concrete and broken glass. One touch and you are likely to be seriously bloodied. A real hazard to someone in a kayak reflexively fending off the cave wall.

An obligatory stop at Song Sot commercial cave - the "best' tourist cave in the bay. It is a high-level remnant of a large trunk conduit that passes clear through the island - it was clearly all that is left of a major trunk cave and passes completely through the island. It is large and although well decorated, is dry and dusty and the formations have long lost their luster. Tourists wander freely off the trail. Never-the-less, it is worthwhile as the electrical lighting lets you see the large dimensions of the cave.

There is a U-tube video of Hang Sung Sot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... ia-pZQ41yg

A night on the junk floating in a quiet baylet far from the other tourist boats partying far out of earshot.

8/12/2011 Wed - Lan Ha Bay

More exploration of the bay and caves, in part finding the places that Tony Waltham wrote up in his geologic report. It is wonderful to have the freedom to say "go over there!" I am learning how to get to interesting and instructive karst features that will be of much greater interest to the caver and karst scientist than those you would see by taking a standard tourist trip. No matter though, as the bay is simply stunning and it is beautiful and inspiring everywhere.

Back at Cat Ba this evening, after another great seafood dinner.

DirtDoc

DirtDocFrequent Poster Posts: 58Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:23 amLocation: Denver, CO

[DirtDoc]

Preliminary images from Cat Ba Island and Lan Ha Bay (the southwestern part of Ha Long Bay). Posting in progress.

[garyjulian]

Dwight/Mary
Thanks for including me in your trip log. I'm enjoying a vicarious trip.
Gary

[DirtDoc]

19 - Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

10 December 2011 - Saturday. To the Dong Van Karst Plateau Geopark.

After some time wandering the narrow and motor cycle filled streets of Old Hanoi, we are off for the Dong Van Karst Plateau, on the Chinese border to the north. We have improved our street-crossing saunter and seem to fit into the flow acceptably. At least we have not been run over yet.

Karstlands appeared again about 160 km from Hanoi as we travelled north on Route 2.

We drove to the town of Ha Giang, the administrative canter for the province of the same name. I totally missed the boat on how to pronounce "Ha Giang"! The "g" is soft, and it is pronounced "Haa-zaahn". This small city is nestled on the River Lo between clifted cone karst hills.

Ha Giang is still a militarily restricted area due to the last invasion from China. Only fairly recently have foreigners been allowed into parts of the province. Special permits are required both for the guide and for foreign travellers, which are acquired from the provincial offices in Ha Giang. The Vietnamese here are very hostile (for good reason) toward the Chinese.

We later were stopped at various military/police check points, and had to show our permits when checking in to guesthouses.

We continued up the first of several steps up to the plateau, and were halted just before dark at a small town (Quyet Tien) by the police. We were to wait until Trương Tấn Sang, who was elected President of Socialist Republic of Vietnam in July, and his 19-vehicle motorcade passed us heading down to Ha Giang from Tam Son, the first small town and administrative center on the western edge of the Dong Van Karst Geopark.

We only had to wait about 25 minutes until they zoomed by. The trucker in front had been waiting for 2 hours when we first pulled up.

It was getting dark when we passed through Quan Ba - "Heaven's Gate" and glimpsed karst valleys below us and the skyline ridge of the plateau to the east. From the pass you see the town of Tam Son and the very famous Fairy Bosom hills just below with our guesthouse nestled next to them (no, NOT between them!).

The interpretative sign posted by the DVKP (Dong Van Karst Park) reads:

"Description: Fairy Bosom -a unique landscape that consists of two smooth karst cones, so charming and balanced that they resemble the nature-created fairy breasts emerging from the colourful mixture of paddy fields and house roofs. The name dates back from ancient times and is associated with different ethnic legends."

"Scientific and aesthetic values: The very soft and gentle "Fairy Bosom" is in fact the result of the uniform wash-away of strongly crushed limestone, which is situated along the Quan Ba - Huong Cha Fault. This landscape is unique throughout the DVKP, as although made from limesone, it has soft, gentle relief that is characteristic for non-karstic rocks."

We had been in T-shirt weather in Laos and Phang Nha, cooler and drizzly at Cart Ba, but
tonight it was 9 degrees C when we went to bed, and down to 2 at dawn. Of course there was no significant heat in the guest house (which was older, but very nice) and not enough blankets. I wished for my sleeping bag.

The sky was clear enough, the moon full, and the karst towering above us was magical. Shortly after 9 PM local time the moon began to dim. By 9:30 the eclipse was total.

DirtDoc

[DirtDoc]

19 IMAGES - going up to the Dong Van Karst Plateau.
Hanoi to Ha Giang, Quan Ba (Heavan's Gate), and Tam Son.

A short distance northeast of Ha Giang Highway 4c leaves the river valley and starts up the first of several steps to the plateau. We were greeted by this very large sign on the hillside.


Winding up the first "hill". Background limestone hills.


Waiting for the President to pass by, we were stopped in a small village. A field in cone karst.


Fairy Bosom Hills.


Looking east across the next valley toward the higher parts of the Dong Van Karst Plateau. Elevations locally exceed 2,000 meters.

[DirtDoc]

20 - Laos-Vietnam Karst Reconnaissance

11 December 2011 - Sunday. Tam Son - Yen Men - Wong's Palace - Dong Van through the heart of the Dong Van Karst Plateau Geopark.

Phil made some suggestions as to locating this spectacular karst landscape on Google Earth. Here are some Google Earth locations:
Dong Van: <coordinates>105.3630795526364,23.27806997994365,0
Meo Vac: <coordinates>105.4095624982399,23.19297502731654,0
Wong's Palace: <coordinates>105.2620394511244,23.25365282528634,0
Tam Son: <coordinates>104.9901034724792,23.06437943643183,0
Quyet Tien: <coordinates>104.9634694842966,23.01843417874513,0
Hia Giang: <coordinates>104.9831634013536,22.8160760117866,0

This is an area populated by minority peoples. Very few tourists. Mostly (near Tam Sun) Black Hmung and Flower Hmung, and 9 groups of Dzao, famous for their colourful dress. We stopped at a couple of Sunday markets (GREAT scenes!!) but declined the opportunity to purchase a water buffalo to add to our carry on. Mary did acquire some very fine woven flax items from an excellent Hmoung weaver in a small community (Lung Tan) in a valley below the highest part the Dong Van Plateau. It appeared to be a community (cooperative) production effort. Our money went directly to the local producers, so we did not haggle too much.

It is important for sustainable tourism that the local people benefit, not merchants in Hanoi or Sagon or elsewhere.

I noticed that the road was constructed along the base of the limestone cliffs, above the rice fields on the river flood plain. Numerous springs issued from below the road that fed streams headed into the main valley drainage.

Upwards, and downwards, to another administrative district town of Yen Minh in the karst. UP, up, up once mỏre. Treeless black karst, multiple and enormous dolines. WOW again!

This area hás bêen seriously deforested. Humong from China have been moving south of the border for hundreds of years and cutting trees. Our guide said the Chinese (and Vietnam) army's cut them down during the war in the 1980s, but I have the impression that it has been going on for some time. The armys may not have had too many trees to harvest. The fields farmed by the local Hmung are like the Dragon Teeth fields in SW China. Pổor (and little) soil to start with, and what was there was mostly eroded after dẻforistation. Individual corn stalks are now planted in isolated lơư spots between the karren pinnacles, lovingly watered by hand, and occasionally with soil and fertilizer added. This is NOT easy land to live upon.

The land swalloứ whatever water falls upon it. The government hás recently constructed many concrete holding basins to retain surface water for the local minority people. I have been told that most leak, for there is little money to maintian them. Those basins should also reduce the waterfalls in the píts and the cave rivers that múst exist underground. A possible benefit for cavers too!

I'm estimating we are at least a kilometer vertically above the resurgences I saư below. I am certain that significant dêêp caves will be found hểre. Laumanns lists one reaching depths in excess of 600 meters not too far away, in a similar setting.

Pulled into the town of Dong Van, after visiting the "Castle" òf the first Hmong King (Wang's Palace). I think, a drug lord. Thís ứas previously an area òf significant poppy production. We also visited a "demonstration tourist village" on the ưay. That came with the package ò the guide, cảr, driver, and necessary permits.

Dong Van. What a beautiful setting!! Surrounded by mỏre karst pinnacles!! Like Yangshuo in China south òf Guilin, without the tourists, the vendors, the hype. And the local relief ís higher here.

A contest between our guide, the hotel, and the impending arrival òf a wealthy Vietnamese tourist group that we had met at the demonstration village. (I had bêên quite hit -- the "cowboy" from Texas. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. I can play the part). Initially "No room!" Then ""The noisy room for the drivers by the front door, but we have to make it up." I don't know (nỏr do I want to know) the details, but our rốom had bêen booked in advance and we eventually were settled into a good one. Points for our guide.

Cold again. I ứas inventive with the heat and we were mỏe comfortable than lát night.

ƯƠ!!!!!!!

Dirt Doc

[DirtDoc]

20 - IMAGES -Part One
Tam Son - Yen Men - Wong's Palace - Dong Van through the heart of the Dong Van Karst Plateau Geopark.


Morning view toward the karst plateau over Tam Son.


Quan Ba - Tam Son market.












Down, across the valley, and back up again to Yen Men. Some of the high peaks in the distance are over 2000 meters above sea level.


Lady officer checking our permits.


Weaving linen, made from the flax plant. When it is made into garments, it is valued for its exceptional coolness and freshness in hot weather.


The shop operator holding the root of a plant which is the source (I think) for the purple dye.


Higher toward the plateau.


Another view. China to the north.


One of the many closed interior valleys. All the water funnels into the sinkhole, lower right of center. We saw literally hundreds of these over two days. That was only a very small sampling of those that exist here. Note the field at the close right. Individual plants are grown in small pockets of soil between the black karst pinnacles.


New house amid the old in a village VERY close to the Chinese border.


Dong En Cave, behind the new house.


I found the perfect tour bus to use next November with our group of cavers and karstologists.


Oh! Another hole in the ground!


A small village on the plateau.


A local woman.


A local field with crops planted (often individual corn plants) between the karst "Dragon's Teeth". The three bunches of corn stalks in the upper left are on the backs of three local women. They had just walked up the trail at the left, but we were a little slow with the camera.


The last series of images is in the town of Dong Van.








Another one!


More hard-to-farm fields.

[DirtDoc]

20 - IMAGES - Part Two
Dong Van to Meo Vac on a spectacular road, then back on a southerly route across the Dong Van Karst Plateau to Yen Men, Quan Ba, and Ha Giang.

Starting south on the spectacular road from Dong Van to Meo Vac.


Another hole in the rocks!





At the northeastern edge of the plateau.


A retention basin to hold water for the minority farmers living here. High mountains on the far left is the Chinese border.


A different retention basin. More crops planted in small pockets of soil.


A deep canyon at the edge of the plateau.


Another view of the same canyon. Distant mountains are the border with China.



The road to Meo Vac.


Interior karst valley between Meo Vac and Yen Men. All the water sinks.


More deforested black karst fields and large dolines.


Another large doline.





Another farmer's field.


Iron mine in the clastics east of Yen Men.