Tom Aley's Article on WNS Management

[boogercaver71]

I just read Tom's article from the Feb 2010 NSS News. To me, his article made a lot of sense. He laid out the facts as we know them to date, and made what I believe to be well thought out conclusions. I was just curious on what other posters on this Forum thought about it.

[Squirrel Girl]

Ooooh. Sounds interesting. I'll look forward to it. Too bad they're not delivering mail here in the DC metro area. 12-18" more predicted starting tonight.

[tncaver]

I just read Tom's article from the Feb 2010 NSS News. To me, his article made a lot of sense. He laid out the facts as we know them to date, and made what I believe to be well thought out conclusions. I was just curious on what other posters on this Forum thought about it.

Here you go. I too thought it was overall a pretty well written article that presented the facts and obvious conclusions concerning WNS and proposed management
options. I was especially glad to read the conclusion that cavers have little to do with the spread of WNS. I hope the NSS will now make a formal proclamation
to the USFWS and to the government agencies contacted by the CBD. If they don't make an official statemen similar in content to Tom's article, then his
article will be of little consequence. And that is the bottom line.

[BrianC]

Tom Aley executed the article with very thorough thought! His insights paralleled almost exactly what we here on cavechat have been saying all along! He must have been reading here! I am very excited that his article is getting to all our members, some of which obviously haven't even known that there is a WNS disease affecting bats! otherwise I'm sure we would be hearing lots more from them! ( at least I would hope we would)! Now we need to get right down to the issue at hand, cave closures and the USFW revising their closure policy! This is the right approach and the only reasonable approach that will both be justified as science has seen that bat to bat indiscretions are the real threat to themselves (they can't help playing TAG with each other) and reversing the closure policy will also remove most of the leverage CBD has with it's extreme agenda of playing GOD!

[BrianC]

Is an electronic version of this article available that Tom Aley would be willing to allow to paste a link here for non NSS members and others reading this board to review? This article would also be a good statement of what I believe most if not all NSS members could agree on, to send to USFW and CBD for response! I would also like to have congress review it!

[ArCaver]

Great article, as expected.
I'm sure the CBD and USFWS have already seen it, but as BrianC has suggested it wouldn't hurt to send them more copies. It would also be a good idea to reference it in any letters or emails to congress and to show it around to any teachers you might know.

[BrianC]

http://www.caves.org/WNS/WNS%20February2010NEWSwnsarticle.pdf I am very excited that the NSS has posted this article on the WNS page!!

[graveleye]

I sent the link to our local DNR WNS contact here in Georgia. I hope they take it seriously. It's a great article.

[David Grimes]

I just got my february news a couple days ago. That was an excellent article and surprisingly readable.

[Phil Winkler]

Tom is very readable. Visit his web site and read more of the same. Clearly he wrote all the pages there, too.

[Teresa]

Tom is very readable. Visit his web site and read more of the same. Clearly he wrote all the pages there, too.

Not merely readable, he's a scientist on a mission who has the rare ability to size up his audience and communicate to interested people at a level they can clearly understand without talking down to them. And he can lay more implication between the lines than most people can say directly, and make you smile while he's doing it. I greatly admire that ability and am a little envious of it.

[Anonymous_Coward]

I agree that this is an excellent article. It made the most sense of anything I have read on WNS so far. I found his bleak realism on the subject quite refreshing. Saying "there is no hope, and nothing we can do about it" seems like it would be depressing, but I found it quite the opposite. It is such a relief to be realistic about this.

I liked the article so well that I forwarded it to a bat conservation group that I am a part of. Mostly made up of biologists, this group meets for the conservation and management of a certain western state's bats.

They hated it! I have received two replies about how the article is biased, not based on science, and does not suggest any solutions. I find it very disheartening that we have reached such a state of polarization on this issue. All cavers seem to love Aley's article, all biologists seem to hate it. We might as well be debating abortion, the death penalty, or gay marriage. Much like these age-old conflicts, I fear we have reached a state of stagnant polarization in the WNS debate.

[BrianC]

I agree that this is an excellent article. It made the most sense of anything I have read on WNS so far. I found his bleak realism on the subject quite refreshing. Saying "there is no hope, and nothing we can do about it" seems like it would be depressing, but I found it quite the opposite. It is such a relief to be realistic about this.

I liked the article so well that I forwarded it to a bat conservation group that I am a part of. Mostly made up of biologists, this group meets for the conservation and management of a certain western state's bats.

They hated it! I have received two replies about how the article is biased, not based on science, and does not suggest any solutions. I find it very disheartening that we have reached such a state of polarization on this issue. All cavers seem to love Aley's article, all biologists seem to hate it. We might as well be debating abortion, the death penalty, or gay marriage. Much like these age-old conflicts, I fear we have reached a state of stagnant polarization in the WNS debate.

You can see why we are so adamant about getting the USFW on their toes and to do the right thing! Use factual evidence and portray themselves as our servants! SOME Bat scientists have certain issues with anyone ever entering a cave! This is obvious! The CBD has their agenda ,I'm not sure exactly what it is! Caves are a natural environment that humans have been part of since the beginning of human existence, and will continue to be! Cavers want nothing more than to see WNS solved! In the eyes of some extremists' they want nothing more than to close all caves all the time! They are the ones that are selfish as far as I can see!
'

[boogercaver71]

They hated it! I have received two replies about how the article is biased, not based on science, and does not suggest any solutions. I find it very disheartening that we have reached such a state of polarization on this issue. All cavers seem to love Aley's article, all biologists seem to hate it. We might as well be debating abortion, the death penalty, or gay marriage. Much like these age-old conflicts, I fear we have reached a state of stagnant polarization in the WNS debate.

It is sad but true. If the biologists you sent it to knew Tom, they might have a little more respect for his knowledge of bats and other cave critters. Even though his expertise is in groundwater and hydrology, he took a cave almost 40 years ago that had a disappearing gray bat colony and a fair amount of pollution, to one that has a vibrant colony and other cave life that is now flourishing under his management.

[wyandottecaver]

Andy,

Toms article was excellent for its audience...the NSS News. It was designed to present one persons opinions on WNS using easy to read language and generalized understandings about WNS rather than technical data. The fact remains it was not, is not, and wasn't intended to be equivilent to a peer reviewed scientific treatment.

He makes several comments that are unsupported by data even if they do make sense. Examples are that 1) WNS does not affect humans...we do not know that, though it is unlikely as no reported cases have been identified. 2) it seems likely fungal spores are produced mainly and maybe only on hibernating bats.....again, makes sense, but we have zero evidence except that we CAN grow spores in a lab....... 3) his cave and mine numbers and the extrapolations from them are simply not acceptable from a scientific standpoint. As illustrations in a lay article they are fine. He states there is little (actually zero) evidence of immunity then uses immunity as an argument...There are others.

Again, it was a great article written for a specific audience with well thought out opinions. It was not science.