Youth FAQ - Can't find guide

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Youth FAQ - Can't find guide

Postby lookingaround » Jan 1, 2006 10:04 pm

Here is another FAQ question. This is a tricky answer... Please post any suggestions for improvement. Thanks again! We appreciate it.

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Why can’t we find a guide for our group?
Experienced cavers often enjoy guiding youth on trips, yet sometimes a group may have trouble finding a guide. This can be for a variety of reasons, the most common problem is scheduling. Everybody is busy and sometimes schedules just don’t “line upâ€
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Postby mgmills » Jan 2, 2006 7:50 pm

I'm not sure suggesting that they reimburse expenses is a good idea. . . I personally have never expected to have my expenses reimbursed. It is awlfully close to paying the guide.

I think you have tried to cover too much.

I do think the part about being flexible about the date of the trip is a good point to stress.

I'd suggest use only the first paragraph and the tips (minus the one about reimbursing expenses)
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Postby cob » Jan 2, 2006 8:42 pm

How's about: Because nobody feels like dealing with this really pain in the rear trip and/or your attitude?

To note: MVg recently recieved a request for locations... I said no way would we give out locations to a request received via internet, BUT... If they were really interested, I would lead a trip for them (boy scouts). They(he) copped an attitude. (I have to note, I did not necessarily reply in the most polite form, my bad). At any rate, I left it at "I will take you, give me dates" and this Bscout toop (if they really were) blew me off.

Emphasize the position we as "guides" are in. It is difficult. By the by, keep on keepin' on... you are doing the right thing.

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Postby Realms » Jan 2, 2006 10:50 pm

hmm.................ok
never stop imagining what could someday come to pass...
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Re: Youth FAQ - Can't find guide

Postby amaddox » Jan 5, 2006 2:36 pm

[quote="lookingaround"]Here is another FAQ question. This is a tricky answer... Please post any suggestions for improvement. Thanks again! We appreciate it.

---
Why can’t we find a guide for our group?
Experienced cavers often enjoy guiding youth on trips, yet sometimes a group may have trouble finding a guide. This can be for a variety of reasons, the most common problem is scheduling. Everybody is busy and sometimes schedules just don’t “line upâ€
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Postby Wayne Harrison » Jan 5, 2006 3:17 pm

I think the part that mentions guides incuring fuel, food and lodging expenses is not something that can cover every tour. For my part, if I'm going to be up at the cave, or camping in the area, I don't ask for gas money. However, when I make a special day trip and drive 300 miles roundtrip just to lead them through the cave, I do ask for gas money. If the cave was closer, I wouldn't.

I've never asked for food or lodging expenses (how many NSS cavers stay in a motel anyway? OK, I did at the convention but that was because it was for a week and it was supposed to be hot).
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Re: Youth FAQ - Can't find guide

Postby NZcaver » Jan 5, 2006 4:39 pm

lookingaround wrote:...The guide doesn’t get paid (usually), although a few lucky ones will get their expenses reimbursed. They will incur costs like fuel, lodging, food, and supplies...


As a suggestion, you could think about replacing this with something like -
"Your group should offer to cover any reasonable expenses the guide incurs on your trip, such as fuel, lodging, food, and supplies. You may feel that your guide will decline this offer, but it should still be made. Remember, this guide has agreed to spend his or her valuable time guiding your group, and may offer to do so again."

I think the sentence before this looks fine as-is -
"It is important to consider the personal sacrifices a guide makes to take a youth group caving."

But you could lose the last couple of sentences in that paragraph -
"Most guides have lives and families of their own and the guide’s family life is as busy as anybody else’s – sometimes there just isn’t enough free time. Time spent caving with a youth group is usually time spent away from family and friends."


Covering expenses is NOT awfully close to paying the guide. Note that I avoided the term "reimbursement". This offer should be less like a payment, and more like filling the guide's vehicle with gas so he/she can get to the cave and back - or paying for a meal on the way home. If it's easier to do this in cash, so be it - as long as it's clear to all that this is not guiding-for-pay. (Unless it legitimately is, of course. :big grin: )

Many cavers decline expense coverage and reimbursement offers when guiding youth trips. However it is wrong to assume that this is the norm, and the ones who get reimbursed are the "few lucky ones". Personally, I prefer to get my fuel expenses covered on trips like this - but that's all. I feel the same way when giving rides to other cavers, if it's an organized trip and we are car-pooling. If I'm "going anyway", no big deal. But I always offer gas money to the driver when I ride with people... :wink:
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Postby Teresa » Jan 5, 2006 4:53 pm

Instead of "offer to reimburse expenses" say:

"Most guides don't want to be paid for their time, because it increases liability. However, offering transportation on the trip, to refill their gas tank or treating them to a meal afterwards is greatly appreciated."

Furnishing in-kind, non-monetary assistance at the same level as the group is expending or consuming is not considered compensation and does not increase liability. People in tourist industries who are prohibited from accepting tips, gratutities, or other monetary compensation for services rendered nearly always are allowed to accept a meal, or help with personal out of pocket expenses (such as gasoline) expended on behalf of a group as long as money doesn't exchange hands, they are not personally profiting as a result, and the only reason those expenses were incurred is because of his/her effort on behalf of the group.
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Postby wildmanjeff » Jan 6, 2006 12:37 am

How big a group , what area are you planning on attending, what age of the youth group are all important as well.
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Postby lookingaround » Jan 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Thanks everybody for the feedback to this question. This has been a tough one for us. We’ve never been to a grotto meeting, and don’t know how they work. The only nearby grotto is a 4+ hour drive each way. :sad:

mgmills wrote:I think you have tried to cover too much.
[...]
I'd suggest use only the first paragraph and the tips (minus the one about reimbursing expenses)


What are everybody else’s feelings about this being too much? Throughout the FAQ, we’ve tried to be fairly complete. Our thoughts are “the reader is looking for answers, why dumb it down?â€
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Postby Patricia Bingham » Jan 25, 2006 7:52 pm

How about if the first 3 paragraphs are the answer to the question of "why can't we find a guide" and the remaining paragraphs become the answer to "how can we make the guide want to do this again" or something like that.

Sorry if this is a double post; not been having good luck with the quick reply lately.
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Postby lookingaround » Feb 5, 2006 8:56 pm

Patricia Bingham wrote:How about if the first 3 paragraphs are the answer to the question of "why can't we find a guide" and the remaining paragraphs become the answer to "how can we make the guide want to do this again" or something like that.


Great idea. The revised version of the two questions is below. Please provide feedback/suggestions! Thanks!


Why can’t we find a guide for our group?
Experienced cavers often enjoy guiding youth on trips, yet sometimes a group may have trouble finding a guide. This can be for a variety of reasons, the most common problem is scheduling. Everybody is busy and sometimes schedules just don’t “line upâ€
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