Gated Caves

Cave conservation issues, techniques, questions. Also visit the NSS Cave Conservation and Management Section.

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Re: Gated Caves

Postby jeffkruse » Feb 19, 2015 2:35 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Protecting land is one thing. Telling someone that they cant own more than 100 acres is just downright ignorant. Even small time farmers I know own 3-5-700 acres and they are small time. Other farmers and farmer families that I know and grew up with own anywhere from 1500-3500 acres and even they are small time farmers.

I realize that laws change as society evolves and that is a good thing. After all, our society has evolved as a whole on slavery, womens rights, voting rights, gay marriage, etc and that is great!

I am simply pointing out, ignoring trespassing signs just because you feel they dont pertain to you, is a very poor image to portray, especially on a public NSS board that anyone can read (landowners???)

Respect people's land rights. If they allow you on, great, If not well..........there are about 500,000 more caves on the planet you can visit. Its not worth getting arrested to see that one cave that is posted or gated. Is it?


I kept my post simple because I didn’t want to get into all the exceptions like farming, factories, parks, etc.

And the fencing…. What about the native animals?

This may be the USA but I can take your land if a few judges decide it’s for the communities benefit.
jeffkruse
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Re: Gated Caves

Postby jeffkruse » Feb 19, 2015 2:39 pm

tncaver wrote:If it were not for land ownership laws here in the United States, then anyone could come along and plow up your field of corn or mow down your barn and house to mine rock. Basically, there would be bedlam. However, if the US were a socialist or communist country, then the gov't could
say who gets what. Somehow I doubt that would work out very well. Favoritism would flourish and the masses would own nothing. Also, some
communist countries are terrible environmentalists. China for example. The air is bad and the land is polluted as well in China. I personally,
prefer the USA even with all it's faults.


What do mean I can’t take your land. If I have a good business plan I can take it with eminent domain. It happens all the time.
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Re: Gated Caves

Postby tncaver » Feb 19, 2015 4:24 pm

jeffkruse wrote:
tncaver wrote:If it were not for land ownership laws here in the United States, then anyone could come along and plow up your field of corn or mow down your barn and house to mine rock. Basically, there would be bedlam. However, if the US were a socialist or communist country, then the gov't could
say who gets what. Somehow I doubt that would work out very well. Favoritism would flourish and the masses would own nothing. Also, some
communist countries are terrible environmentalists. China for example. The air is bad and the land is polluted as well in China. I personally,
prefer the USA even with all it's faults.


What do mean I can’t take your land. If I have a good business plan I can take it with eminent domain. It happens all the time.


Nope. You live in New Mexico and I live in Tennessee. :big grin: Government takes land for the benefit of the many using imminent domain. Individuals don't. We can own land only as long as we pay our taxes. So in essence we don't really own our land but we do control it to some extent. Of course gov't sticks their nose in our business and tells us what we can not do with it and of course the land passes on to someone
else when we die. The land is eternal but people are not. So in essence we only control it while we are alive and can pay the taxes and the
gov't doesn't take it from us. Only way to fix that is probably to move to Mars (I hear volunteers are being requested). Even then I'm sure
that eventually everything there would get screwed up as well by government or other countries....or maybe even aliens competing for ore. :yikes:
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Re: Gated Caves

Postby jeffkruse » Feb 19, 2015 4:52 pm

I would give everything I had for a one way trip to Mars with supplies enough for a year or more.

But as far as eminent domain goes it also applies to Private businesses. That’s what the supreme court decided in Connecticut a few years back.

See Kelo v. City of New London on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Or http://www.alternet.org/environment/how ... -your-land
Or http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/tag/eminent-domain/

Or probably many other examples.
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