MUDfest 2014

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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby Extremeophile » Jun 13, 2014 3:42 pm

Cavemud wrote:There's some formation damage but doesn't appear to be intentional. They were off trail looking for more cave that doesn't exist in that passage.

Every cave has it's on circumstances and best practices for conservation. In some cases secrecy works, and in other cases some openness and sharing helps. We have some delicate areas in caves here in Colorado on public land where there is no additional passage. In these cases it can help to communicate via flagging, and on the map, that there is no going passage and not to cross a certain point. If we didn't have open communication about these areas, then every single caver would cross these delicate areas in order to see for themselves. I recently heard of a caver disobeying these signs in order to see for himself because he thought the signs and warnings on the map were a ploy to keep other cavers out of an important extension (that in reality didn't exist). When you have a culture of secrecy then it's difficult to know when someone is telling the truth. Fortunately this was an isolated incident by a caver with lower than average intelligence.
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby tncaver » Jun 13, 2014 5:26 pm

Secrecy is the best bet initially. Eventually it takes more than that. Some caves have flagging tape to keep cavers from straying off trail, but I have also seen rocks placed
to mark off an area to keep people off. Frankly, I find flagging tape to be tacky and just as ugly as graffiti, but a few well place rocks look almost natural while delivering
a message. Of course there are those who ignore everything. Those are the people we don't want going into caves with sensitive areas.
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby MUD » Jun 17, 2014 6:51 pm

:big grin:
Last edited by MUD on Sep 19, 2016 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby tncaver » Jun 18, 2014 8:31 am

Cavemud wrote:The best kept secrets are the ones everyone knows about. :wink:


Only if the caves are gated and you have the ONLY key. :big grin:
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby MUD » Jun 18, 2014 8:14 pm

It doesn't matter about keys when vandals use hydraulic jacks and know how to open padlocks with a coke can. :down:
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby tncaver » Jun 19, 2014 7:21 am

Cavemud wrote:It doesn't matter about keys when vandals use hydraulic jacks and know how to open padlocks with a coke can. :down:


It is amazing how inventive vandals can be. Perhaps surveillance using infrared game cameras is needed. They work day or night and can provide proof for prosecution.
I suspect the culprits are one person or group and once they are caught, that will likely be the end of the vandalism.
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby saleen322 » Mar 19, 2015 12:33 am

Cavemud wrote:Tytoona Cave isn't gated and has a nice sized open entrance. It is in a very rural location with not much around it. There have been problems in the past with party people and vandalism.

The caves that were breached recently have all been attended to. Fantasy Cave was buried with about 5 tons of boulders by the landowner. NO CAVING. Blacklog and Sugar Caves were closed by their owners to all caving for now. Hopefully that will change in the future. The landowners there want no one on their properties. They feel very disrespected and of course blame cavers. We're working to remedy that situation. We opened Blacklog by digging in May of 1990 and have had an excellent working relationship with the owner there until this incident. We opened Sugar Cave by digging in September of 2005 after 18 years of sporadic digging. The owner wants no one there either. :sad:


Todd, I was talking to a guy and work and we got to caves so I found this thread on a search. Who was complaining about you folks over in Sugar? When I read this, I blamed Carol right away but she said it wasn't her! :big grin: I haven't been over for over a year but let me know if there is a problem. Randy Pollock
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Re: MUDfest 2014

Postby MUD » Mar 19, 2015 10:34 am

:big grin:
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